Note: Transcript compiled by Zoom (unedited)

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Lindsey Harding: alright this event is part of the writing intensive programs, public writing, initiative, a program launched in the fall of 2,016, and designed to bring professionals into writing intensive classes, to discuss writing in a professional capacity, as well as the importance and development of communication skills throughout their careers.

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Lindsey Harding: This initiative seeks to foster an awareness of writing as a skill that has real world applicability and a practice that students will continue to engage in long after graduation.

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Lindsey Harding: I’m so pleased and honored to introduce our special guest today. Kat Gilmore.

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Lindsey Harding: Kat Nancy Gilmour is a science communicator for the Infectious Diseases Laboratory in the department of small Animal Medicine and Surgery in the College of Veterinarian Medicine, and also for the Uga new Materials institute within the office of Research.

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Lindsey Harding: She has served in this role since 2,017, and previously served about 8 years as the Director of Public Relations for the College of Veterinary Medicine. Prior to joining Uga in 2,009 she worked as a reporter for the Atlanta Journal Constitution as a writer for Cnn. And as a writer and producer for Cnncom

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Lindsey Harding: and joining cat for this conversation are Chris Miller and Margo Papec.

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Lindsey Harding: Dr. Chris Miller is the director of biological sciences. Here at Uga she works closely with the writing intensive program to provide writing experiences in the discipline of science to students who take introductory biology and upper level biology courses. Dr. Miller is a uga writing fellow and a recipient of Uga’s creative teaching award

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Lindsey Harding: Margo is a Ph. D. Candidate from the Department of Genetics, studying the evolution of visual signaling in fireflies. She’s passionate about evolutionary biology, science, outreach and teaching

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Lindsey Harding: at heart. Margo is a writer who began writing comics and stories as a child. Now she’s also interested in using writing as a tool for learning in science classes and communicating science to broad audiences.

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Lindsey Harding: Margo has been part of the writing intensive program since her second year of graduate school and is currently assisting with writing in the research courses in plant biology lab. So

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Lindsey Harding: alright, I’m gonna turn things over to Margo and Chris to get our QA. Started

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Kristen Miller: right awesome. Thank you so much and welcome everybody. Margo and I have kind of a set of questions to have a dialogue with cat and hopefully, no big surprises for her. And so we’re just gonna alternate questions. Cat and keep kind of keep you on track with time, and we’ll give you like a 1 min signal to kind of maybe tie up whatever you’re talking about. Okay.

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Kristen Miller: alright great so I’m gonna start. And could you please describe your current position a little bit about what your job entails, and especially for the audience. The types of writing and communication projects that you work on right now.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: sure. So first thank you all for inviting me. I did not start out my career as a science writer, but I love being a science writer, and so I hope that I can help all of you today, and if I can ever be a resource to you, please let me know. I am a

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Grant writer, and I write manuscripts, but they call me a science writer and science communicator for the depart for the Infectious Diseases laboratory, which, as they said, is in the department of small animal medicine, and also the new Materials Institute. Let me give you a little bit about what they do, and then I’ll tell you what I do for them. So ideal

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: as a diagnostic laboratory for animals. We do diagnostic works for all kinds of animals. But my direct boss who founded the laboratory, is world renowned in avian medicine, and so we have a strong avian component to our laboratory. But he’s also an exotics and zoom animal veterinarian. And so we work with our specialty is ex is essentially exotic

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: medicine diagnostics. So we work with a lot of zoos. We work with individual

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: veterinary clinics as well, but we also might work with pet store owners and fish and wildlife. You know, whatever is needed to keep a population of animals, healthy and

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: the other side. The new Materials Institute works in sustainability. So essentially, I am supporting the portion of that II support whatever they need. But I work for the director of that unit who is the department head for chemistry, actually, Jason Lachlan, and he develops bio-based polymers, and he and my boss, Dr. Brian Ritchie

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Cross Pass years ago, because to develop biopolymers, it’s helpful to have a microbiologist, and Dr. Richie has a background in microbiology. And so they’ve been collaborating ever since. So for both of them, I help support their website. I write grants I write or edit manuscripts, whatever they need I do press releases if that’s necessary. I’ve worked with the media. If that’s necessary, whatever they need to support their work

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and get it get it done? Did I miss anything?

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Kristen Miller: No, that’s great. Can you? For all of those different we have a little bit more time within this question. So just as a follow up within all of those types of writing that you do, do you? Do you find you spend most of your time on

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Kristen Miller: one of them, or is it so, for example, do you spend most of your time writing press releases? Or is it really just depend on what’s happening within the program. So you have to kind of be versatile with your time.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So you do have to be versatile with your with your time, but I would say.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: probably I spend the greatest amount of my time on grants, and then the second greatest amount of my time on manuscripts and everything else falls after that, and grants are about looking for money to keep our programs going, which includes instruction for our students. Right? They get hands on instruction. With

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: industry mentors. Actually, because of the new materials institute, we partner with industry that wants to work with us, to develop greater sis sustainability in their product lines. So it’s a wonderful exposure for those students with people who could give them jobs some years on the road. But

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: it’s it’s both

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Kristen Miller: awesome level. right? Great. Thank you.

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Margot Popecki: So I’ll ask the next next question. And so, Cat. I was wondering if you would be able to describe a professional and educational background, including what types of writing you did. During your training.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Sure. Well, I have a bachelors in communications. I never went beyond that. I started out as well. I started out as an assistant in a newsroom when Atlanta founded its first 10 Pm. Newscast, which I don’t know if that newscast still exist, but the

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: people who created it a lot. Some of them stayed with the station for years. And then I went on, and was a newspaper reporter for a while, and then, as noted, I went and worked in broadcasting.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: And I’m sorry, Margo. What was the rest of the request. Oh, no worries. It was just sort of like, what types of writing did you do previously? And how did that prepare you for what you’re doing now.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So alright, so with everything I described, I did that with a basic journalism degree. And so to me that mindset is the who, what, where, where, and why, and how, and that is very much foundational to everything I do. And so I did not have formal training as a science writer, but I’ve been able to apply what I was taught to be a beat reporter to learn my beat of science. And so that’s that’s what I do, and that is.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I subscribe to a lot of newsletters that I read

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and just read broadly to learn my topic matter and whatnot.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So that’s how it prepared me. But my transition that time at the College of Veterinary Medicine, as its Pr. Director, did provide a good transition for me, and in that period of time it was more press releases about the work that was being done. But it also allowed me to tunnel down a little bit more and understand about the nuances that went on with the research within the college.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and it provided a much deeper understanding, and also within me spurred that desire to find my own niche area and

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: throw it out.

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Margot Popecki: Nice. Thank you.

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Kristen Miller: So, caput.

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Kristen Miller: That’s a good intro for the next question. So I think you’re talking about writing for these or communicating writing and or communicating. However, you wanna put that for different audiences. So

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Kristen Miller: what? What is that like in general, and and I think that, like the more subtle part to that is, when you write for different audiences, or you communicate with different audiences. How? How do you know what you’re trying to convey is actually getting through to them? Because, you know, one of the things we focus on with our students is trying to get them to think of. Think about that question. You know, you depending on the audience. You need to think about

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Kristen Miller: how you’re constructing them, or a context or things like that. So how do you know you’re actually reaching those audiences?

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So I listen a lot to my gatekeepers. I don’t know how much you all talk about gatekeepers within your program, but I have to presume that you do your gatekeepers or everything. Everyone from the editors who are going to review your work

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: to that journal you might be writing for, and

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: their own audience. But also your internal research team. If you’re writing a manuscript

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: what you’re doing is essentially you’re doing the work for the corresponding author, because that person’s busy. But all their names are going on that manuscript. That’s their manuscript. It’s their work. So you have to be intimately involved in talking to them about their work, and why? It’s significant and whatnot to find out what it is that you need to do and learn and and

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: write about So

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: for your audience, I listen to my gatekeepers. If I can’t have a manuscript that is ready for all the coauthors to look at, if that primary author isn’t happy with the manuscript that I put together for them. So that’s my first gatekeeper.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: My next set of gatekeepers are all the members of the research team who are going to read that manuscript once my boss and I are happy with it, and see what changes they want made. And then, once we have that

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: to a point where they’re happy with it. Then the next thing is, you’re submitting it to a journal. That’s another set of gatekeepers, and they’re going to tell you immediately whether you fit their scope, and if they’re interested, or whether they think you’re not a good fit and they send you elsewhere. But all those gatekeepers to me or our signals

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: that my message works. You know, when it comes to grants it’s a little harder. Because you know less about your audience. You don’t necessarily know who those Grant reviewers are. You don’t know who’s going to review your manuscript at a Peer Review journal, either you shouldn’t.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: And

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: but I think it’s it’s harder to get the Grant money that that’s a harder audience to write for, because you don’t necessarily know that everyone in there is

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: schools in terms of well educated, and has a good foundation in terms of what you’re pitching for them to do in terms of a project goes in theory. They do.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: but not always particularly with your deal when you’re dealing with an emerging area of science like biopolymers and whatnot. I mean, they’ve been around for a while, but they’re changing. So those to me are the things that I look for and and listen to. Ultimately, if you’re successful.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: then your manuscript got published. You made it through all your gatekeepers. You have to write for that audience that particular journal Scope, or they’re not going to publish your manuscript, and you’re not going to reach that audience. So those are. Your audience can be a variety of things. But those are examples as to as to why, it’s important to write for your audience.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: to dig a little deeper. I think a really good example is the new Materials Institute’s website. Okay? Because it’s and all the in. All the websites here at Uga have similar issues. But with Uga

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: with the new Materials Institute, we’re primarily trying to reach industry. But we also are reaching faculty and students who may want to work with us. It also speaks to someone of general interest who comes across the page. But primarily, we’re looking

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: for industry

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Kristen Miller: so definitely you’re kind of touching a little bit on or or what I’m assuming you’re talking a little bit about is intentional

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Kristen Miller: language, right? So like, if you’re writing for a grant or a journal or your institute or students.

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Kristen Miller: you have to think about in intentional language choices, wording things that are gonna make sense to that

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: particular audience. Yes. So, for example,

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: for the infectious Diseases Laboratory.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Our work often is published in something like

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: emerging infectious diseases, which is from the Cdc. We also go into veterinary pathology, which I think is a Sage Journal and the Journal of Veterinary Diagnostic Investigation is one where you find our work. So if I’m writing for something for veterinary pathology.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: they want very specific language that talks about pathology, because that’s their audience. And so they’re looking for things that

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: first of all, why are we worthy of publishing? Have we discovered something or perfected something that could be used by others in their work? Or have we discovered an organism for the first time? Have we discovered it in a new species. Have we discovered it in our region of the country for the first time, or something like that? Okay, great. That’s a great example. Thank you. Yeah.

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Margot Popecki: So kind of following up on that. It seems like a big part of your job is being able to understand your audience and be able to write for them. So you really have a key role in being able to translate these scientific projects research and jargon to whatever group you’re working with. So how did you learn to

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Margot Popecki: communicate this way for such different audiences? With your background in journalism

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: that takes me back to my who? What, where, when, why, and how? I mean, they’re just the basic tenets of journalism they teach you in journalism school that your stories not complete until you have answered every one of those questions, but when you

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: stretch that out and look at at to at applying that to writing as a whole, it does apply to writing as a whole. Every single one of those questions applies to a manuscript or a grant it also.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: those are also the very questions that calm my brain when I get an assignment, and I need to go get information. So the first thing I’m going to do if I’m writing a grant as I go after something called an Rfp. A request for a pro request for proposal. But that has all that. Who? What, where, when, why, and how in it, you know, when it’s due? Who’s giving it? How much money is in the whole pot?

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: How much award are they going to give each time? How many awards do they expect to give? You know? How long does your proposal have to be? Sometimes they even limit you on the number of citations you can have. They may or may not have a style, they force you into. Manuscripts are all the same way as well. Even they. Some of those journals will also limit you to the number of citations you have, and rightfully so, because

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: you could take up the whole journal with your citations on some of these things. So that, I think is just really what I drill down on. I would love to tell you that I

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: thought it through, and have made a methodical process of it, but it actually has been much more instinctive for me, and I think I spent

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: roughly 15 years in journalism. So those early days when I had to remind myself about gathering my facts and what to put into my story, that it just all becomes second nature. What’s really hard is for me to sit here and talk to you about my process, because it’s just so second nature to me that I’m like, Oh, my gosh! How did I do that? I have no idea.

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Margot Popecki: That’s interesting. I guess one thing I’m still interested in is like for kind of communicating to broad audiences versus professional scientists. How do you sort of

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Margot Popecki: understand? Like, how do you kind of curate like? Who? What? Where? When? Why, for that specific audience. Is it just sort of? Is that part of second nature, just from being a journalist and being able to talk to people and kind of understanding what they’re familiar with, or how do you kind of approach that part of it?

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So I would say, that’s less instinctual because I haven’t done it as long. So on my 15 years on campus. They’ve roughly been split between my time as the Pr. Director for Vet. Med. And my time in this job currently, and I never wrote a manuscript or a grant until I got into the job that I have. Currently I was exceedingly lucky and that I wanted to grow my skill set.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I had a very good existing relationship with Dr. Ritchie through my time at the College of Veterinary Medicine and he gave me an opportunity, and I will be forever grateful. So if I can tell any, all of you encourage you one thing today.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: if you think you want to be a science writer. You’re already on the road. You’re on a road I didn’t even know to go on to, but when I look back over my lifetime. All the little crumbs to the bread bread trail were there, I mean, I always liked hard subject matter because I like to challenge myself.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I always was interested in health and medicine. All those things. So

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: just you will learn you’re already here. The fact that you have taken time out of your schedule to sit in here in this zoom and want to listen to someone

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: drool on and on about how they learn to do this says that you have an interest, and you want to perfect your skills. And you’re probably already on the right track. So just drill down on that

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: interest, and I think you’ll be fine.

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Margot Popecki: Oh, great! Thank you.

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Kristen Miller: All right. I think that people always want to know about

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Kristen Miller: the realities of positions. And and really it’s not. You know the triumphs are great. But could you talk a little bit about some of the key challenges? You have

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Kristen Miller: within your position. The types of writing you do the types of people that you need to communicate with, you know. However, you want to

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Kristen Miller: answer, that would be great.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Sure. Well, you will always have to work within some rules. So rules, for example, are the law very basic rule. But in Georgia and other States I don’t know how many other states I just deal with Georgia.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Animal patients have protected medical records, so I cannot identify my patients. And when we write

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I even have to be careful about identifying clients, right? Because of privacy. So there’s that. And that is something that has followed me throughout my 15 years in animal medicine.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: And it.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: We’ll follow anyone who has to deal with writing about health and medicine. That you’ll learn those things. And the other thing is working with Media

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: when I was a journalist.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I never imagined anyone who would not want to talk to a journalist until I became Pr. Director for the College of veterinary medicine.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and let me tell you, lots of folks don’t everybody talk to a journalist?

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So that actually, that perspective was wonderful. I was stunned at first. but it it made me think through it, and I arrived at this. I don’t want to put anyone in an uncomfortable position. I think that people who don’t want to be interviewed aren’t necessarily going to be the best interviewer

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: are, give the best interview. And so sometimes there’s a number. Another member of that research team who might be a better speaker for the whole group. If you need someone to talk to the media or work with you on a press release or be your outfront spokesperson or whatnot

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and that might be simply because no one else on the team wants to deal with the media. It might be. Everyone’s so busy. That’s the one person who has the time, whatever it is. Just find that one person, because that one willing individual will be your best representative. The other thing I’m going to say.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: as I’m very big on self care. Although I was telling Kristen we started. I’ve been lousy about mine all week, because I’ve been really busy and behind on a project. But, generally speaking, I don’t let it fall, so I’m really big on getting adequate sleep and having a good sleep window. I’ve struggled with insomnia most of my life, so I’m exceedingly rigid actually, about my sleep hygiene

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and I also am. And this is where I was bad this week. I’m usually really rigid about getting my walks, and I try to walk 3 to 4 miles a day with our dogs.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: And then also good diet. I feel like all of those things are just pillars that we lean on, and so like this week when I can’t get my walks in, because I need my time for my project on behind on. I don’t feel too badly cause I’m still sleeping great, and I’m eating great all those things to me, or fuel. I think of myself like a car sometimes, and often like an animal, too. But in the

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: car realm let’s just say that if you are constantly depleting your fuel tank, there is no gas in your tank to get you anywhere where you need to go. Right? So for us, that’s writing our assignment and having our articulating, difficult subject matter that we want other people to understand right.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So I try my best to remember every day that if I’m not in my best place.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I’m not giving out my best work, and I feel it at the end. I especially feel it at the end on these long projects, because sometimes I might work on something that takes me a week or 2, and sometimes it might take me 3 months.

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Kristen Miller: I think that’s probably it, though those are great. It it actually made me think of something. That you didn’t mention. But I’m gonna go ahead and ask and that is do you find within

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Kristen Miller: the scope of your work and the the types of assignments that you do. Is there a lot of

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Kristen Miller: last minuteness? In other words, I’m I’m thinking you’re talking about your self care, and I’m thinking

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Kristen Miller: that could be really hard. If you’re working with groups that tend to do things at the last minute, and then everything is put on you at the last minute is is that typical

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Kristen Miller: for the groups you work with, or the assignments you have? Or is it just really dependent on this? You know the situation.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So that’s been an evolution throughout my career.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: A long, long, long, long time ago. about 3 decades, I’ll add.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I set a goal for myself of balance and moderation 3 decades later. I feel like I’m pretty much there, though that doesn’t mean that it’s still not a seesaw, and we’re not looking to balance

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: so.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and I’m sorry, Chris, like I said. My head gets deep in my subject matter, and so I’ll get lost. So ask me one more time quickly. So really, I was just thinking about

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: balance and last minute assignments. Okay, sorry. This is where that comes to. When I was in news. It was crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy over the top, insane all the time. For 15 years

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I loved every single minute of it. I also lived like I was strung out on caffeine swigging mailocks out of a bottle. I’m not kidding. It’s been the last decade that got out of my refrigerator and just a nervous, anxious wreck, which is part of why, when I turn 30, I was like, I want balance in moderation, because I want some control in my life right?

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: And it was really hard to do that chasing that drug, because that’s what it was. I was an adrenaline junkie I still am. It’s just different. And I actually, if you’re really seriously thinking of science writing, I gotta tell you

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I find it very balanced. I’m not going to say that I don’t have my weekends where I don’t work. I will work usually a few weekends a year. I worked this past weekend. I might work some of this one.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I have learned my sweet spot, particularly as I get older, is

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: roughly 8 to 9 in the morning to 4 or so in the afternoon. So that’s what I try to maximize for my writing and productivity time. If I have to start a day earlier in terms of

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: adding hours to my day. I’d rather add it on the front end than the back end cause I’m diminishing returns on the back end. But, generally speaking, it’s not crazy like that. It might be crazy like that if we’re getting toward a Grant deadline. Yes, if we’re working on a manuscript, those are self imposed. And so. But a Grant deadline. They’re pretty all consuming. I’ll usually work a few weekends, and it’s usually crazy last few days.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: But I’m okay with that. It’s not every day, and I love it. And I got to spend a lot of time with my subject matter.

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Kristen Miller: Wow! That’s great. Thank you so much.

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Margot Popecki: So I’m kind of in a similar vein.

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Margot Popecki: what are the steps of your writing process like? Could you describe? Kind of how you approach these writing projects? If you have any advice for people. That would be great.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Sure, I will do my best. Okay, so I’m going to try to focus on manuscript writing.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: because I understand that’s what some of the students have an assignment about. But

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: my process.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: as I noted earlier with the who, where, where, when, why and how applies across the board. So if I’m going to write a manuscript. someone, usually my direct boss, has come to me and talked to me about

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: what their findings are, why, they think it’s worthy of a manuscript

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and where they might have an idea of seeing it go. They will have given me enough

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: information that the first thing I will do is go look for a journal where we might have a good fit. and to do that

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: my boss and I might talk about a few journals that they have in mind, and I’ll go look at those journals, and I might look at some more. And you look in the scope area because that will tell you what that journals interest does and whether you fit in their scope. So the first thing you’re going to do is find a journal where your work fits in their scope, and then they have an area in there that’s called the authors. It’s usually instructions to authors or authors. Area whatnot. So I go there.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: It might require you to create an account for that journal, but that’s not where you had to subscribe to the journal, you just create a free account

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: where

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: you can upload materials when you get to that point and whatnot, so get all the information you can. You’re going to download and data mine that instruction to authors. But I will usually look at several of those things, including the instruction to authors, and then go back to my boss and say, Okay, here we go. What do you wanna do? So he likes to try to

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: get an editor’s interest first. Not every journal will let you do this. Some will lock you out, but if it looks like a journal will let us. We will then write an abstract and a query letter. We do that together, and then I will send it to the editor. We see if they say they have interest. If they don’t let us do that, then I just start drafting the manuscript. So that’s not an immediate jump in and create a word document. That is.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I have to download. I’m dealing with animal patients. So I download all the case histories on all my patients.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: That’s every test result. That’s the submission form. That’s all the pathology results the final reports. So I’m going to look through 100 of that information for every single patient, because I have to describe the cohort.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and you know, if I don’t have additional questions, then I’ll start writing. Sometimes I will go ahead and write that introduction first. I usually will do that because I feel like it warms my brain up to the subject matter, and like I said, I’ve had to learn my subject matter, but there’s no right or wrong place to start. If you’re comfortable, starting with materials and methods.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I’ve done that, too, just to get my brain working right. I think the worst thing is to stare at the blank screen, so do anything to avoid the blank screen. But I then we’ll

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: write and work through everything that we have to write about. The discussion is usually the hardest area for me.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: because that’s all your interpretations, and where you think it needs to go.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: but that’s just hard for me, because I have to take a bit of a stab at it first, if you will. But

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I do that in conjunction with talking it through with my bosses that has to reflect their vision. And so a lot of that is just me teasing out what that is. Some of it has become more obvious to me as the years have

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: past. But not always. But I that that’s probably the the hardest thing for me. And but then, once we have a draft together, I’m working directly with my boss, if he likes it when it. When it’s to the point where he likes it, we send it out to all the other co-authors.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and we let them look at it, and we get input. Now, all the while we have been thinking about images, right?

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I don’t know those images. The pathologist on the team know the images. So, depending on what journal we’re going for. They are contributing images. I might like some better than others. I’m going to ask them to tell me what those images are, because I can’t write a caption for those images, but I can edit it

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: And then, once you have a complete draft where everyone on the team is happy with the draft, and you’ve gotten all your tables together. Everything looks like you want it to look

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: you, then submit it to your Journal of Choice, and you sit back and you wait to see what happens. It’s usually within usually inside of 30 days someone will reach out and say, yes, we have interest in reviewing your manuscript or no, you’re not a good fit. If you’re not a good fit, you go find someplace else and that might mean that you have to tweak style and things like that for to fit that other journal. But that’s what you would do.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: And then, did I miss anything eventually? What will happen is if the reviewers like like your manuscript, and they, what will happen is, the reviewers will then come back if they send it out for Peer Review.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: you will. You might wait 6,

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: a. maybe 10, or 12 weeks. depending on the journal.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and then the editor will send you back a lengthy email that will have comments from every single reviewer. And what you have to do is you have to go through and address every single comment. A lot of them might be a preference for word choice.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: And my view is we take their word, choice.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Occasionally someone on the team might not want to change their word choice. That’s that is

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: up to the doctors I work with. That’s not my choice. Okay? And if they choose that they want to hold onto their language and not accept the ones the editors has suggested. We have to give our rationale for doing so, but no one’s entering into an argument you’re just standing up for what you believe in and why you feel. That’s the better terminology. Sometimes reviewers want to see, and

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: another test or 2 done. Maybe they don’t like the images you’ve selected. Maybe they think that something you have buried in text would be better as a table and easier to follow. But whatever it is, they’ll let you know, and what you do from that point on is, you are going back and forth until you satisfy

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: all the reviewers concerns. That might be one round. It might be 2 rounds. It might be 3, whatever it is. Usually what you’re going to see is every single time they come back with fewer and fewer things that they want you to do and change and fix. And then eventually you publish.

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Margot Popecki: Great! That’s really helpful, especially as I’m writing my thesis. I was wondering to what follow up on this.

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Margot Popecki: What is the process? Sort of even before you get to the reviewers and submission of your paper. What is the process of revision like for you like wh. When once you have a draft. How do you sort of hone it? With everyone else?

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I did skip that did my sorry

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: alright. So once I send that draft out to everyone on the team to look at.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I try my best not to look at it until it comes back from the team, and I try to give them a couple of weeks with it.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I do that because

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: time away from that writing, that wonderful thesis that you’re working on those things where all of us as writers. We do just love what we come up with, but the fact of the matter is, the longer we can give ourselves distance from our work.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: the more we can come back as effective critics and make it better. So when I go back to look at something, I when I send something out.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I try to give the people on my team, if at all possible.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: 2 weeks to a month with it, because they have a lot of time. And also because I recognize

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I’m way down on their priority list. I will do them the courtesy of reminding them. Maybe 2 weeks out. Maybe you’re gonna week out. I’m not going to be a pest, but I’m just trying to keep us on track

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: but at any rate, when they they will send back their comments and edits, and you are incorporating those into your paper and yours, then sending it back out for everyone to see that it is what they like and and what they’re they’re happy with. But I usually don’t look at the paper. Give it again until those come back.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and when I do I try to go at it with the mindset of? I know I’ve made a mistake.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I just have to find it, because I know I’m not perfect. If I go into it with the mindset of it’s perfect. That does something to your brain, and I don’t find things, but when I give myself distance. I find it, and all that’s good. Everyone’s impact is good. No one expects your paper to be a home run as soon as it hits their inbox. We just want to get it close enough that we can make it one, and the whole team will help you get there.

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Margot Popecki: That’s really great advice. Thank you.

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Kristen Miller: Kat, I think we have time for one more question, and we’re starting to get a few questions in the chat. So I definitely wanna make sure. You have time to to answer the participants. So if if you don’t mind, could you kind of wrap this up with some, maybe some general tips for

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Kristen Miller: students who want to get into this type of career. That that you’re putting out there with all these different types of science, writing and communication and interactions with people. Maybe just a couple of minutes to talk about some general tips.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Sure. Well, the first thing I’ll say is sign up for newsletters and read journals and books and everything you can find that are in that area of interest that you have, because that will help you grow your vocabulary, and it will also help you find things that might be of interest to your team. I mean, I

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I can’t do this every day, but I try to spend 2 or so hours every morning from about 6 to 9, just reading everything I can. That’s everything. From the news to my, you know, nature communications newsletter to whatever, because I find grants. I find people who might collaborate with us down the road on things all.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: But also it grows your knowledge base about your topic and your vocabulary. So there’s that. And I think that’s huge. If you want to write grants.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and I’ve never tried this for science manuscripts. So look and see, it might exist for them, too. But I can tell you that for grants

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: there’s lots of places out there where you can get webinars and tutorials, particularly from the Federal agencies. So back in the spring, I spent an entire week on half day long seminars. It was a Grant writing workshop. It was completely free and within an agency that runs a biopolymer project program, and we will apply there again for grants. It was very, very good

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: time well spent, so look for things like that. And then, last, but definitely, not least, is you want internships, and don’t say no, just because they don’t pay, not all internships pay. But if you go in and you do a good job for someone, you might have a great reference for life. Okay? And that person will help you get a job.

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Kristen Miller: Okay, that’s great. So

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Kristen Miller: Margo, I’m gonna kind of shift your question, the last question you were gonna ask to the end. Of this session. If if we have time for it, because I think the questions that are coming up in the chat will address some parts of that question. If that’s okay. Okay. So I’m Lindsey. I’m gonna turn it over to you and kat. Thank you. That was awesome.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Jordan. Thanks.

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Lindsey Harding: Yeah, that was great. Thank you so much. Kat.

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Lindsey Harding: So maybe I feel like you kind of already started answering this question there at the end. With thinking about like internships, too. But are there any other sort of as Kaz asks in the chat like kinds of job roles or places you’d recommend for someone with a journalism or communications degree who wants to get into science writing like, are it maybe like more specific outlets? That that students might look towards?

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Hmm. Well.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: so I mean. there always is the possibility of the route that I took which is most big newspapers and some broadcasting outlets, and certainly the wires and lots of magazines

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: have tunnel down beats for essentially stem writers. Okay? And someone with a communications degree could definitely get started that way, because as far back as my very beginning days, I always volunteered for a good health story and a good science story if I could

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: have one come my way. And when I worked for Cnn.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: They came up with a story about mapping the human genome. Now I did not get to go out and cover that in the field. I was in the office, but I got to write about it. So just any kind of opportunity like that. But you know, if you’re here on campus

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: reach out to some of the campus communicators in the stem areas. Now, I don’t know what vet med does now, but when I was their Pr. Director

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: we had a huge mission, and we were very under resourced, and that’s very common across campus. And so I leaned very heavily on interns. I also was lucky enough to get graduate assistance for a while. Okay, so you don’t be shy about reaching out to some of the communicators on campus. Maybe

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: maybe you could just volunteer to do a story for them, for their alumni magazine which they might need, or for their website. And that might get you a clip that you might need to get a job. So I’m just going to say anything that will help you meet someone who can help open a door for you or give you an experience that will lead you to another experience that puts you on the course where you want to be. That’s what I would look for.

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Lindsey Harding: Nice. That’s great. Thank you.

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Lindsey Harding: Okay. The next question kind of gets a little bit more into thinking about process. And I know you started talking about you talked about revision earlier, too? But this may be this question, maybe tied to both revision, but then, also thinking about kind of balance, so how to best to deal with revisions without overwhelming yourself.

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Lindsey Harding: revision sometimes looks like a lot of work, even with not needing to revise the methods. So any tips on like, how do you even go about approaching revisions? Maybe getting feedback back, or reader reports. And then like, what is, what is that like for you.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Okay, I’m going to answer your question. But the first thing I’m going to address is overwhelming, because overwhelming is a huge thing and can get in the way of all kinds of things. Now.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: everyone’s different.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I don’t know who asked the question. I’m just going to say I’m a person who struggles with a lot of anxiety.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I live breathe overwhelming. Okay.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So the first thing I’m going to say is calm down, because the calmer you are.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: the less overwhelmed you are, and actually the better control you have over your situation and whatnot

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: beyond that

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: sort of going hand in hand and overwhelming is. I think how we think about things and approach things

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: is huge in setting us up for success or failure. So set yourself up for success. Don’t think of all those changes as being overwhelming. Think of those edits as really good critical feedback that’s designed to make your manuscript much better.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: so that it reaches its intended audience. It’s also the hurdle that you must get through if you want your paper published. That’s just a fact. So if you drill down on what a big, overwhelming task it is.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: We all handle things differently. My personality is going to get caught up in. Oh, this is a big, overwhelming task, so I don’t tell myself that anymore. I tell myself.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: if it looks like a lot of red, we go one page at a time. Nobody’s gonna die here. Okay. The first thing I’ll do is I’ll go make the smallest edits first, because a lot of times that might be a little comma or a little delete or a little move this paragraph, and it might look terrible. But next thing you know, you might have spent 2 h with it knocked off half the to do list, and it doesn’t look so overwhelming anymore.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So find ways to rethink it and make it manageable. I do this with lots of things, find ways to just take a little bitty bite.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Okay, and just take it one at a time. One task at a time. Be that one page at a time, one change at a time, whatever it is. and just get through it. I mean, I can spend a lot of time stressing myself out about the fact that I’m overwhelmed, and I may not make it, and all that does is eat up time and ramp up my anxiety. And I I’m sorry

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I don’t mean to sound so lecturing. I’m just going to tell you this is a very real thing I deal with, and this is what I’ve learned. I calm, down I go, take a walk.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I do something to shift my focus so that my brain focuses on something else other than being overwhelmed. And then I can focus on my assignment.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Okay, beyond that.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I did kind of address your thing about revisions, because that is how I would tackle it. Is there something that I did not address, that you or the questioner would like for me to address?

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Lindsey Harding: I think that sounds that sounds good.

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Lindsey Harding: and yeah, I really I think this idea of also like taking up something that seems like big and overwhelming, and breaking it down into bite size, manageable tasks as a way to just like as a mindset, maybe, for writing in general is is really lovely.

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Lindsey Harding: Alright! The last question we have here gets a little bit more technical. But I’m still also curious to hear your thoughts on this one. How do you go about presenting statistics in the results section of a manuscript. So maybe thinking more about technical writing here. And what does that depend? Also on the journal or the publication or news outlet?

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Okay? So in terms of

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: like, what do they mean? But in terms of

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Lindsey Harding: so like, statistics, yeah, yeah, maybe like, best

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Lindsey Harding: best strategies for yeah, for presenting statistics, p-values, T. Stats, degrees of freedom.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Okay. this might not be the answer you want. But

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on this coats.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: first of all, I’m going to tell you that the only way I got through statistics with a C. Was with a tutor, and I was so grateful. The second thing I’m going to tell you is one of the things I have learned to love about scientists, and it was very frustrating to me at first, because coming from a news background, do you think everybody wants to talk about everything? But a scientist only wants to talk to you about his or her area of expertise? Right? So I’ll never forget

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: early on and the job I have. Now, when I asked my direct boss, Dr. Richie, a statistics question, and he looked at me, and he says, that’s a question for the statisticians. I was like.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Thank you. So I’m going to say that every paper that we’ve done that involves statistics involved a statistician, and what I’ve done is, I have left it to that person to give me that language.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Because they’re the ones who have to explain their math. I don’t understand p-values and G-values and all that. I just don’t, and I’m sorry, and someone else may be able to give you a better question

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: except

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: my message to you is you don’t have to be the expert to all things. This is why you have a team now on your assignment in your class. I recognize that’s different. But you still have people you can lean on, and that you can go talk to you to help you, you know, beyond that

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: in every case where I do a manuscript. And I skip this. But it’s helpful. I look for examples from that publication of the type of manuscript that we might have, and that’s often going to include statistics and whatnot. So you can get a sense

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: for how others presented that work, you know. And then beyond that, just make it as clear as possible. Sometimes things are better put in a table

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: because we put so many words around them. We actually confuse their meaning. But if you put it in a simple table, it just pops and you can get it. So

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I wish I could give you a better answer. But that’s what I got.

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Kristen Miller: Yeah, I’ll I’ll just follow up. If that’s okay, cat. II actually think that was a great answer. And for someone that. So I’ve published in science journals, social science journals, education journals.

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Kristen Miller: and and I have taken a ton of stats classes, blah blah blah. My point is one of the best things I think to do, and I think this is a very good question is exactly the second part of Cats response, which is, if you’re publishing in a journal.

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Kristen Miller: take some time to go through that journal

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Kristen Miller: and and find a variety, not just one or 2, but let’s say half a dozen, or even a dozen articles, and look in their results. Sections, and I guarantee you will find generally

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Kristen Miller: a kind of a standard format

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Kristen Miller: that that journal was using to present the things that you mentioned. T. Stats, P. Values degrees of freedom. But I will also add that

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Kristen Miller: for a lot of quantitative data results.

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Kristen Miller: there are across fields, general

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Kristen Miller: kind of standardized ways of presenting the information. So you always present your degrees of freedom or your p-value and things like that. So I think it’s a great question. But use use journals as your model. I think if you get into qualitative data that that can be a lot more kind of open ended. But for the quant data, I think I think you’ll get some.

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Kristen Miller: you know some good guidelines by just doing a little bit of work on your own.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I I’d like to add something else, too, if I may. And that is just that reminder. So I realize in this academic setting where you have to write a paper, it’s a different beast. But in that real world, setting where you’re working with a team.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: we have a guy who works with our group whose specialty is genetics.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I could cry and pull my hair out for a week, trying to write that he can knock it out for me in 30 min or an hour, and he’s still going to have to clean up behind me, so why should I give him a mess and make myself frustrated? I leave him a hole. I tell him what I think we need. It needs. If there is a comment from a reviewer, I’ll provide that. I give him whatever guidance we have. But that’s his area of expertise.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: I ask him. Just give it to me now. He might give me a bunch of language that I clean up, and he’ll give me his references, and I have to take care of that. But that’s fine. He’s done the hard work. So lean on your team. It’s hard while you are having to learn the process in a class and be the whole team. But once you get out there and you’re doing it, you will always

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: always be supported by people who have a vested interest in making sure you get it right because you’re writing in their name.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: So there are no wrong questions.

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Lindsey Harding: Well, we do have a couple more. Just a couple more minutes. But that seems like, maybe it’s a good, a good note to end on to this idea? Yeah, like, ask ask questions. So a any final thoughts? Chris Margo Kat?

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Kristen Miller: I mean, I think that. No, I mean, I think that was very comprehensive. And

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Kristen Miller: a.

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Kristen Miller: you know, for the people who are participating today. You know these these questions that you’re asking are really good ones. And I think well, I’m speaking for cat. But cat, would you be willing to answer any? Follow up questions? Could any of the participants Ca, contact you directly at your uga address. Should we put that in the chat? Or

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: oh, please do. And I’m glad you asked that, because I mean. First of all, let me say I’m so grateful that all of you are who are here are interested in science writing, even if you’re just interested in terms of getting through your glass. Okay, the world needs science writers.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: Clarity is so important. Good communications is so important. Okay, so yes, please, if I can be a resource to you if I can answer another question for you. If you want to have coffee and talk whatever please just let me know it’s KYGI, [email protected].

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: and again, that’s ky GILM OR. With no e because of the character limit that I had when I started, and then at Uga Edu. And if you would, though, do me the courtesy of letting me know that you’re a student, and you have a question for me that would help. That’ll get you, and if you don’t hear back from me in the next day you’ll hear back pretty quickly if you have a deadline. Deadlines always help.

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Kristen Miller: Great, really quickly. I just threw in the chat. There are

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Kristen Miller: 2 undergraduate biology courses. 4,200 W. And 4,300 W. And they are both they’re really popular classes. They’re writing intensive classes about scientific communication. So one is a force students who want to get training in writing

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Kristen Miller: for journals, manuscripts and we often have students in our research courses sign up for this class because there’s a required manuscript type paper

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Kristen Miller: for that experience. And you can work on that. All semester and the other course is suited towards writing science for a variety of audiences. Both are taught by Dr. Holly, Gallagher and who’s doing an outstanding job

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Kristen Miller: in both courses. And I think one of them I can’t remember which. One also accepts graduate students in in the course as well, so that, and they count towards general electives for the biology major. So for whatever that’s worth

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Lindsey Harding: terrific. Well, kat thank you so much for joining us today, Chris and Margo. Thank you for helping to lead this conversation. And thank you all so much for for coming and spending this hour with us talking about science writing it was, you know, great way to spend part of the day.

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Kristen Miller: Thank you, Kat.

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Kat Gilmore-UGA New Materials Institute: thanks. Y’all take care. Bye, bye.

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Lindsey Harding: Hi! I’m gonna stop the recording.