Episode One: Mind Mapping

Abigail Facet: Hello everyone. My name is Abigail Facet and I am so overjoyed to be the host of this season, season 9 of the Red Pen podcast, Writing in the Wild, where I get to explore the benefits of writing out outside of just an academic standpoint. So, don’t go anywhere and don’t take your English classes for granted as I get to explore from experts and my peers just how developing writing skills has benefited some personal aspects in their lives. For this episode, my first episode ever of doing a podcast, very exciting. I get to really explore mental health. That is a journey that we all, regardless of where we go to school or or what we’re exploring in our lives have to deal with is our own personal mental health. And um I really was just interested like how does developing this skill that you know we just try to get an A in for a class, how is that going to benefit our mental health, like what what is that doing for us outside of merely a 4.0 GPA? Just come with me as we get to explore this. My first interview was with the the lovely Dr. Lorie Johnston here at the Grady College at University of Georgia. And then I get right into my second interview with one of my best friends over at Kennesal State University. Her name is Anna Sha. Both of their work is incredible and I’m so excited to put that on a platform for you to listen to. And yeah, let’s just get right into it. So, if you’re unfamiliar with Dr. Lorie Johnston, um you are missing out. Let me tell you about her. So, she is a lecturer over here at the Grady College of Journalism and Mass Communication. She teaches a variety of journalism classes including reporting and writing across platforms, religion reporting, home and garden reporting, critical writing, feature writing, and investigative reporting. She is a former Associated Press writer and magazine editor. She is a co-founder of Fast Copy News Service with her husband Andy. Fast Copy, if you’re unfamiliar, is a writing and editing business whose work has been published by the Cox Media Group, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, CNN, the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, You name it, she’s done it. Um, she’s a double dog. She graduated from the Grady College in 1995 with a journalism degree and in the inaugural class of the Master of Fine Arts in Narrative Media Writing program in 2017. She is so highly decorated. She is such an expert in her field and it was such an honor to get to interview her for my first ever podcast. Was it a little daunting? If you wanted to know for someone who has never conducted an interview, and who doesn’t have their major focus in journalism. Yeah, it was a bit intimidating, but the advice that she gave me throughout her own words just were so enlightening and awesome, and I just am so excited for you guys to hear it, too. So, let’s get right into that interview. My name is Lori Johnston. L O R I J O H N S T O N. I’m a journalism lecturer in the Grady College. So, um, can you tell us about your background in journalism and what persuaded you to pursue a career in a field centered around written communication?

Dr. Lorie Johnston: Yes, I always loved to write. I was writing as a middle schooler and knew that I wanted to express myself through writing, but paired with writing, I wanted to talk to people. And so, that is why journalism was the perfect field for me. So, I could be a writer, but also an interviewer and have those two things intersect. And so, I went to college here. I got my undergraduate in journalism and then I worked for a variety of media outlets including the Associated Press, magazines, websites, and then I actually freelanced for years while I was also teaching here. And when I freelanced, I freelanced for the Washington Post, the Atlanta Constitution. I’ve had stories in Wall Street Journal, HGTV’s website. So, I write about everything. No topic is off limits to me. So, I have enjoyed being able to write and interview people my whole life.

Abigail Facet: Have you noticed any common challenges students face with writing.

Dr. Lorie Johnston: Yes, in our classes, students don’t get to write about themselves often and that can be difficult because students are coming from writing, you know, essays to get into college or writing other projects in high school and even in other classes where they get to write about themselves. And so, in the journalism classes I teach, it’s telling other people’s stories generally and you can bring in your lived experience that can inform you as you’re doing interviews or writing. writing, but generally it’s not writing about themselves. It’s writing about a topic through the lens of another person’s experience. So that sometimes is hard. And then um in terms of writing just across the board, journalistic writing has a different structure than other types of writing. So trying to get students to understand the reason why there’s the structure can be, you know, it can be challenging because um especially if you get into like our college, it’s because you’ve written some you’ve done a good job on your written statement. to get in. So, I have to kind of tell students, you’re a great writer. I’m just trying to teach you a different way to write and a different way to tell stories than maybe they’ve done in the past.

Abigail Facet: So, you’re already working directly with students writing samples as a professor of journalism in Grady college. And I know you say that these are very different types of writing, but have you seen any links within your students work with developing writing skills and their own mental health? Have you witnessed any particular instances where writing has profoundly helped students?

Dr. Lorie Johnston: I think that when students students are able to tell somebody else’s story, it helps them see their life as well. And so I do find that when I have students, you know, write a profile of someone who started a business in town or who’s super involved in an organization or who’s a a leader in the government, when they do those stories, then they come back to me in the reflection saying like, “Wow, this like made me feel so great that I could I could tell this story or I love talking to this person so that I could tell their story. And so I think I like it because having them write in the classes where they’re not writing about themselves and their own experience, they still see like the value in letting someone else speak, especially if someone is like under reppresented in in the media or who’s never told their story. And so often they’ll be like, I can’t believe they’re willing to talk to me. And then they’ll say like, I got such great information. Like I’m so proud of this story. And so when I hear them say like they’re so proud of it that like I think that has like this emotional connection to their work that they’ve done for a class, but they see like this kind of greater like like uh benefit to them as a as a human

Abigail Facet: and you’ve covered like a ton of stories and other people’s stories. Is there any story that you remember profoundly impacting you specifically?

Dr. Lorie Johnston: Yeah, I mean I think that there’s a few. I mean one was actually back when I was an undergraduate student here in the 90s. I worked for the and black every day. I mean, the red and black was five days a week print. I went to the red and black before my freshman year even started and got a story. And so, as I worked at the red and black my last year here, my senior year, I wrote a story about um a family living in one of the lowincome housing communities right around campus, really actually right off of Baxter. And so, I spent time with this with this mom and her children in this community and talk to them about what it’s like to live in poverty and also to live in poverty so close to the University of Georgia campus. Kind of that contrast. And so spending time with her and her children made me realize that I can tell stories that maybe don’t get typically told. And it also I’m using that story now because I see that some of the language I used in the story I in today’s times would frame that language more carefully. And so as I think about how our word usage and how we describe people and places have changed over the past you two three decades I’m using it as a tool to say this is how I wrote it then now that I know more and now that our language is changing and our like we’re way more careful in our word choice I would say um it allows me to have just like honest discussions with students. So that was one as a student here very proud of that story. That family let me come and just spend time with them and to learn about their life and learn about um you know things they wanted to have better in the neighborhood they’re living in. Um but it also allows me to tell those stories now with my students.

Abigail Facet: Perfect transition to my next question. Um so how does the act of editing and refining writing impact emotional processing?

Dr. Lorie Johnston: Yes. I mean I even me as a writer it hurts hurts to be edited. It hurts to be told that your first version of something is not perfect. And so I bring that into when I’m editing my students, letting them I let them see how I’ve been edited. I have some of my worst experiences being edited where everything was red and line edited and ton of questions. Um, so I try to so I I see the value in the editing process, but I also completely recognize that it’s hard to open up a document and to be told via te via via you know words from an editor that you know this is not clear this could be rewritten and so it’s very daunting so I will give my students advice sometimes about make sure that you open that document when you’re in a frame of mind to be ready to work and accept the comments and see them as somebody who cares enough about you as an editor to make your work better or cares enough about you as an editor professor to make your work better but also knowing that, hey, if you open up that document and if the comments make you want to scream, which one time a student did tell me, she opened up my document and I’d known her for a couple of years at this point, but she opened up a document and she literally screamed, you know, and I say, “If it makes you want to scream, like close it and do something else and know that you can’t do it right now.” And so, I think that recognizing the kind of the editing process and that it can be emotional um, you know, helps me kind of explain it, but also know that ultimately you do have to face those comments, but you should look at comments from an editor or professor knowing that it’s trying to make you better and it’s trying to help you produce the best work. I’ve had some horrible editing situations that are still with me today that I wish um, I wouldn’t have experienced, but at least it makes me a stronger person.

Abigail Facet: One time I had a 15 page paper due and I turned in my draft and my professor first page and she said, “I couldn’t read past the first page. Redo it.”

Dr. Lorie Johnston: Sorry.

Abigail Facet: I’m gonna transition over to the creative writing competition question.

Dr. Lorie Johnston: Okay.

Abigail Facet: So, I’ve been made aware that you’re developing creative creative writing competition specifically for mental health. Can you just tell me more about this?

Dr. Lorie Johnston: Yeah, thanks for asking. Um, I recognize that students across disciplines want to write about mental health. We have in our journalism classes a lot students wanting to address mental health and write those stories, but knowing that it can be difficult stories to tell. And so I wanted to create a way where whether you were journalism, education, um international affairs, public health, business, you know, whatever uh major you are, I wanted to provide English I wanted to provide a way for students to be able to express themselves in writing about mental health but in a variety of of media let’s say or a variety of outlets in doing that. So the mental health writing competition will span both non-fiction and fiction and we will have um judges who will look at the work analyze the work based on the the the genre and I think this is going to be a great opportunity for us to celebrate people who are willing to tell stories about mental health and hopefully allow us to bring mental health writing more into the the forefront, but also to avoid having cliche because I think that some of the mental health writing I see is very clichefilled. And I want to have us kind of move forward in how we’re approaching the topic of mental health. in a authentic way that recognizes the different ways in which mental health is in our lives. And so whether it’s um you know a journalism major writing a profile of someone who has um faced uh mental health issues and who has found a way to to you know to to incorporate that in their lives. Or if it’s a education major who submits a piece some work that they would use in working with middle schoolers or high schoolers or whether it’s someone who um has a public policy focus who would submit work that would be used in that sector. I would love the idea of providing a way for across the campus for us to encourage and celebrate well done mental health writing.

Abigail Facet: Okay. And then just last question is how does creative writing differ from the other forms of writing in terms of its impact on mental health?

Dr. Lorie Johnston: I don’t know if I can answer that. I think I think I could say it this way. Let me let me say it this way. I think that um that journalistic writing and narrative writing is a way to tell true stories, but in a compelling and creative way to allow people to read about mental health in ways that they normally may may not because we sometimes think about reading about mental health is more from the medical side, you know, okay, I think I I’m experiencing something. I’m going to look it up online, see what it’s said. It said on a medical website or I’m going to see what like an influencer is saying about mental health. So, I think that from my perspective, although the competition will be open across disciplines, my area of specialty specialty is in journalistic narrative writing where the stories are completely true with people who are willing to share their stories, but we write it in a way that the reader wants to keep reading. They want to know what happened next and what happens next. So, that’s kind of my my take on it.

Abigail Facet: Do you think that developing writing skills is essential for everyone?

Dr. Lorie Johnston: Definitely. I feel that no matter what uh job you’re going to go into, what field you’re going to go into, we need to be able to communicate via writing. And I know that AI has making is making it a lot easier and I totally recognize that there’s a place for AI and I look forward just seeing how AI changes our life but I also feel that when you um can craft your own words and be proud of that like that is uh that’s that’s an amaz that makes you feel value and of benefit to others and so yes I’m totally a fan of developing those skills and then for people who are hesitant about the idea of writing for mental health what words of encouragement can you offer That’s a great question. I would say don’t force yourself to write something when you’re not ready to do it yet. A lot of times I think people think they’re ready to write about their own mental health and they’re not because they are at a point in their journey when they’re still trying to to move forward. I also would say that finding ways to tell those stories and people to tell those stories could seem difficult, but it’s more um accepted now to talk about mental health. And so whereas when I was in college, it would I think I would have had a hard time writing about mental health at all, I think now because of the efforts by people in public health, by people in education, by people and by even what we see on social media to tell those stories, there’s more of a willing audience to tell the stories and to read the stories.

Abigail Facet: And then my last question is, where can listeners learn more about your work?

Dr. Lorie Johnston: Students can go to the Cox Institute section of the Grady College website. So, it’s grady.uuguja.edu and then you can just search for Cox Institute and in there we have a section called the journalism writing lab and that’s where information will be available about the competition this fall as well as other information about our programs.

Abigail Facet: Well, thank you so much to Dr. Lorie Johnston for my first ever interview. It was wonderful and insightful and I mean just like she said, we should really just appreciate that we live in this new age that allows us to talk about these mental health issues that maybe our parents didn’t really get to experience when they were in college. I think the thing that was most interesting to me from her interview was hearing about how telling others stories impacts your own mental health and your journey. And I mean, I just did my first interview and I can tell you firsthand that it was scary going into it, but you just get to reflect on where you are afterwards hearing their insight and it really does change you a little bit. So, I just really appreciate having her on the podcast for my first ever episode and then we’re going to have a little break. get into a couple ads and then after the ad break, I’m going to transition right into my second interview with my best friend Anna Sha. She’s just wonderful and I’m so excited for you guys to hear her insight.

Abigail Facet: Introduce yourself to the remarkable world of talented undergraduate scholars and explore works across the humanities, arts, and sciences. Visit UG’s Classic Journal, the Writing Intensive Programs Journal of Undergraduate Writing and research. The classic journal unites young writers across the disciplines to create powerful and meaningful work that impacts any reader. Students are welcome to submit their work and gain insight and experience into publishing. So whether you’re a writer extraordinaire or a curious mind ready to explore, the classic journal invites you to join this literary expedition. Your voice matters, your ideas count, and your journey begins here. Visit the classicjournal.ua.edu or follow us on Instagram. Classic writing. Okay. I’m so excited to be here with my best friend, Anna. Can you give us a little introduction?

Anna Sha: Absolutely. So, my name is Anna Sha. I am currently a senior and a psychology major at Kennesaw State University, and I’m also a peer counselor there.

Abigail Facet: That’s so exciting. So, what um persuaded you to go into that field of study?

Anna Sha: So, I chose psychology because I really find the human mind fascinating. And I also have struggled with my own mental health and I was hoping to be able to understand for myself and others how to possibly help out with those struggles and ease them.

Abigail Facet: Awesome. And so you I know you very well. Um and you work with the CAPS program. It’s called the CAPS program at your school as well.

Anna Sha: It’s not called CAPS, it’s just called peer counseling.

Abigail Facet: Okay. Because at at UG it’s the CAPS program. But um what drew you specifically to working with peer counseling at

Anna Sha: So, originally it was mainly professional development and seeing if I might enjoy counseling or therapy, being in a therapist position in the future. But what’s really kept me motivated to it is that we’ve come up with these events for students to help them build connections on campus. And I’ve also been able to connect students during my sessions to other resources and clubs that I think they might enjoy.

Abigail Facet: So, your major is psychology and how has that major influenced the way that you approach writing for mental health?

Anna Sha: I love this question. This is definitely something that I thought about when I was coming up with my expressive writing workshop. And to be honest, I thought about it from this perspective of how I thought about writing. And the way that I’ve described it to people is that anytime people can get their thoughts and feelings out of their brain and onto a piece of paper, for example, can be helpful to just being able to see it rather than trying to hold it all inside. And when it’s inside our brains, it can become very jumbled. But when it’s on a piece of paper or maybe it’s being bounced around in a room in a session with someone or just with a friend, it can be easier to break that information down and make more sense of it.

Abigail Facet: And then so why do you think that creative writing is such a powerful tool for mental wellbeing?

Anna Sha: I think there’s definitely something to be said for the act of creating something out of pure enjoyment for the act. And when something is a graded assignment for school, it can feel like that is just work and something that you have to get through. But if you are writing for yourself to have created something that you’re proud of, It is a product of possibly negative emotions, but it’s something you can look at even years down the line and say, “I’m proud of this and I did this for myself in order to feel better.”

Abigail Facet: Yeah. I had um my other interview with Lori Johnston, which is also in this episode. Um we talk about the act of editing and refining that you have to do for academic work. And um I think I asked her a question regarding how she felt about like that process when it comes to emotional processing. and she gave me an answer that I really wasn’t expecting. I think I was looking more for like what you learn about yourself, but she gave me a more pointed answer that I think I really needed to hear at the time, which was like it’s hard to hear criticism from professors and it’s hard to receive all of that um negative feedback when you are proud of something. Um so I think that your work which is not focused on that hardship is is really profound um in this area. Um one of my professors, we were going through my personal statement and I was so proud of a line and it was the first line he decided to cut and I was like, “Oh no, why?” And he was like, “Have you ever heard the phrase kill your darlings?”

Anna Sha: No.

Abigail Facet: No. I’ve never heard that phrase either, Dr. Matt Lock. I never heard that phrase. Um and he said that when often when something isn’t something that you’re super proud of in your work, it’s the first thing that needs to go. And I was like, “Oh, Oh my gosh, that’s like not what I would have expected. Um, so there I think there’s a different like freedom to not killing your darlings and like allowing yourself to really see what you’re putting onto a page. Um, and so I’m really liking this. Do you think that certain types of writing, poetry, journaling, storytelling are more effective than others? Do you have a preference?

Anna Sha: I think that is very personal for each and every person. And I don’t think that there is one that’s better than another, but I do have a personal preference for poetry. I think that I think that like a lot of kinds of art, it’s very subjective. And you can write a piece of poetry and it can mean many different things to many different people. But when you write it, you know what it’s about. And even though you can talk about the sky and it mean happiness for you, sadness for another person. It will hold that meaning for you and it allows you to process and go through your emotions without really having to tell someone what exactly it is that you went through.

Abigail Facet: That’s that’s a great answer. So, how do you think that the act of writing compares to other mental health resources like therapy or meditation or whatever else you’re working with in your own peer counseling experience?

Anna Sha: One con to be honest is that it is something that you actually have to do. It’s something that you have to work on. You actually have to put pen to paper and you have to think. But I think a lot of the pros are that you can do it while you’re lying in bed. You can do it while you’re sitting at a coffee shop or you can even do it on your notes app when you’re in class. I think there’s a lot to be said for doing this in conjunction with other resources like therapy and like meditation. But there is something very personal about it. And I think that’s special because it doesn’t need to be shared. Some people can get very scared to share in therapy or in groups. And this is something that can be just for yourself, but it can also help you process emotions in a very similar way as if you were telling them to someone.

Abigail Facet: Um, I think it’s really important that even if you’re writing creatively for mental health and it’s supposed to be personal, like a diary, I don’t know if you have this experience, but I’ve I’ve written a diary since for forever. Um I don’t often keep up with it every single day, but when I feel like specifically like vulnerable, like I need to get something out, I I’ll write it down. Um

Abigail Facet: and I find myself critiquing like what I’m writing or like worrying about my wording and what I’m saying

Abigail Facet: even though I know no one’s were going to read it. And it’s like such a vulnerable act to do any type of writing whether it be academic or um or or mental health area of writing just because you are making it permanent. This is whatever you’re feeling at that moment is a permanent thing. Um and so I think that is very interesting to highlight. Okay. So let’s talk actually about the the workshop that you are launching this week. Um Um, can you walk us through what the workshop is, how it works, and what kind of writing exercises you’re looking forward to be implementing?

Anna Sha: Absolutely. So, it will be once a month for four months, and each month is a little bit different. I have one month on poetry, another on bullet journaling, another on narrative formats, and one just kind of overall where’ll be doing some writing sprints and more of an open-ended week. And I’m really looking forward to seeing what people come up with, especially during those writing sprints because it is something that they can write anything. They can write what they’re feeling in that moment or something that happened to them in the last week or month. And there’s also something I’m looking forward to called the Pongo poem exercise where it is basically a fill-in- the-lank poem where there are some prompts like I feel beautiful when I feel angry when right now I am feeling and I’m honestly interested to see what people can come up with just from such a basic format.

Abigail Facet: How do you envision this program helping people both in terms of improving mental health and also developing writing skills?

Anna Sha: It is my hope that it helps people in their writing by allowing them to kind of just go for it. it and get away from this paralysis of not knowing where to start, especially in academic writing. Some people start with an outline. Some people start at the conclusion. But I’m hoping that this helps the people that come to just start somewhere, start with maybe a writing sprint about the topic. And as far as mental health, I just hope that people can find their niche. Like the way that I feel about poetry, I hope someone feels about writing dialogue or writing letters or writing a play and I hope that that helps them process their emotions the way that poetry helps me.

Abigail Facet: So, was there a personal experience that made you passionate about this project specifically?

Anna Sha: I would say that my personal experience has just been my own journey with writing. I was talking to my supervisor when this was coming to be. I was talking about how much I fell in love with journalism as I was writing for the student newspaper at Kennesaw State, which is called The Sentinel. And just how much I had gotten away from writing, how much I missed it. And that’s really why I became so passionate about it was because it was something so personal to me that I enjoyed that I hoped other people could learn to enjoy as well. It was something that hadn’t come to the peer counseling program before. And of course, I’ve taken inspiration from a previous group that went through the writing center and the counseling center as a collab spiration. It’s something that I was able to bring to peer counseling and it’s also inspired me to get back into my own poetry writing and journaling which has been great for my own mental health again.

Abigail Facet: Awesome. And then how do you think that leading this workshop, writing this workshop and um just like your involvement with peer counseling and mental health writing specifically, how do you think that’s going to affect your academic writing a little a little vice versa? A little a little uno first card.

Anna Sha: No, I love that. I think to be honest, seeing other people’s writing styles will help break me out of my own shell.

Anna Sha: I think the editing that I will be doing of my own work based on that will help me probably learn new words and break me out of my punctuation slump.

Abigail Facet: Yeah, I really enjoyed what you said about um just putting pen to paper and and getting started and not doing an outline because I know I was actually Today, one of my classes, we had a two-page essay due last weekend and we have a group me for the class and people were like, “Oh my gosh, I just don’t know where to start.” And I was like, “Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.” And then in my class today, this one of my friends was telling me about how she swears the paper would have taken 30 minutes if she hadn’t stared at the page for the first hour and a half doing nothing. Um, and I think that this like The paralysis that you mentioned is so real and it is so essential that we allow ourselves to refocus writing into a more mental health area because there is a lot of mental blocks that come with writing.

Anna Sha: Like absolutely

Anna Sha: there is the this the fear of being judged, the fear, the vulnerability that goes into it, the I don’t know what to say. I don’t know if I’m going to be good enough. I don’t know what my professor is going to say. And so there is that fear. Um and also like you said like do I know enough words? Do I know what punctuation to use that that that judging ourselves consistently um that comes with with writing. So I think that it’s so important that we allow ourselves to to break those those habits that I feel like have been built for a very long time.

Abigail Facet: Um and then I’m going to get into my wrap-up questions with you. In my mission with this podcast is to really explore how essential writing is. Not not only in academics. I I firmly believe that writing is a skill that if you develop it through an academic sense, it will impact you profoundly elsewhere. I want to hear your hot take on it. Do you think that developing writing skills is essential for everyone, even if your major isn’t super focused on it? Like, let’s say you’re a math major. Um, and why?

Anna Sha: I absolutely do. I think writing is something that will follow a lot of us in our careers. Writing emails even wanting to come across as warm or professional is a great skill to hone. I also think that things like writing love letters can mean a lot to someone, even if it is to a friend or a family member. And again, obviously, I believe that getting our thoughts out of our own brains and onto a piece of paper is helpful for everyone. Even doing just a brain dump of your to-do list and things that your feeling, your your month at a glance, your New Year’s resolutions, that sort of thing can be so so helpful to your mental health.

Abigail Facet: Do you have any book or writing prompt recommendations for someone looking to explore writing for selfcare?

Anna Sha: So, two that I would really like to highlight are from my outline. And the first one is to write about a challenge you recently faced, a powerful moment you recently experienced, or anything else you feel you can write a short story about. The second one would be to choose from these five competencies

Anna Sha: and they are emotional regulation, mindfulness, resilience, compassion and belonging and try to find which one really speaks to you and write something about that. It can be an outline or it can be a brain dump about one of those. So the five competencies came from something that I do as a peer counselor that is a mental health 101 presentation. So sometimes we will go into classrooms and give this presentation and that comes from from our overhead of counseling and psychological services at KSU. They decided those competencies were ones that they wanted to instill in the student body.

Abigail Facet: For people who are hesitant about the idea of writing for mental health, what words of encouragement can you offer?

Anna Sha: Honestly, firstly, I would like to say that it’s not exclusive to people who feel like they’re good writers or have won awards for their writing. It is really for everyone. If you feel like it might help you, I absolutely encourage you to try it. I would also like to say that everyone starts somewhere and the people who maybe have won awards for their writing, they started somewhere. They probably started right where you are.

Abigail Facet: That’s so wonderful. Well, Anna, this has been fantastic. You are one of my closest friends and I’m so proud of the work that you’re doing over at Kennesaw State. Um, it’s really fun to watch and follow along with your journey and I get to do that super easily because you’re my best friend. So, for people that are not your best friend, Where can listeners learn more about your work? Either through peer counseling or if they really want to go check out your old interviews for the newspaper.

Anna Sha: I would direct people to a KSU website called Owl Life. It is owife.kennissaw.edu. All of our events will be on there. And I would also direct people to, like I said, the Sentinel. And that website is the ksuentinel.com.

Abigail Facet: Awesome. And that is a wrap on the first episode. episode of the Red Pen Podcast, season 9, Writing in the Wild. I’m your host, Abigail Facet, and I just want to give a huge thanks to Dr. Lorie Johnston and Anna Shelp for joining me today. Their insights into creative writing, expression, and connection truly brought this conversation to life and gave a whole new outlook for the ways that writing can impact mental health. If today’s episode sparked something in you or made you want to grab a pen and head into the woods, or you’re interested in their programs or competition, be sure to check out the episode notes for links to more of their work and keep an eye out for the next episode where we’ll bring to you more stories, more voices, and more spaces that writing becomes wild. Until next time, stay curious, stay creative, and let your words run a little wild. Redpinn out.